|
|
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
READER MESSAGES LATE MARCH 1999 From: "lisa dean" <lisaandjason96@hotmail.com> Thanks - where are you accesing the Internet from? An internet cafe? Where are you from exactly? aiden we are in cuzco, peru. heading back to manc in 2 weeks using an internet cafe Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 20:45:54 EST Dear Aiden: Aiden I did send you my new e-mail address but mail is still going to my old number Brit142. My new number is Brit165@aol.com I don't like to miss your mail. As for the "Spirit of Manchester" award I wish you all the luck that you deserve. I wrote to Carolyn Blain (carolynblain@compuserve.com) and told her how you have shortened the distance for me from Atlanta to Manchester with your amazing pictures. And from what I hear from other far removed Mancunians you do the same
for them. Good Luck. Thanks very much. I've amended your e-mail address on all previous Reader Messages pages - this is a problem - people changing their e-mail addresses. Could you remind me where Cromar mill is please. The weather has been fine - I have a backlog of photos now - I could do with a full time assistant! I feel very lucky to have an appreciative audience and a 24 hour exhibition opportunity!
Barb Burrows I was on Lock Lane not so long ago, but didn't take any photos. I'm currently doing pictures of the Ship Canal so I'll get down that way again. By the way, I've often wondered what people in Cadishead do if they want to pop across the canal to Partington. As there doesn't appear to be a ferry, it must involve a long drive! The 101 still goes along Princess Road, if I'm not mistaken, so hopefully you'll recognise a few places on this week's main photo. Reply-To: "Norman & Jean Buckley" <nbuck@pacificcoast.net> Thanks - it's proceeding - slowly!
Aidan:
Peter Pelham By the way, there's another picture of Xaverian. Which teachers did you have? The teacher I most respected was Mr Underwood, who taught A-Level English. From: "folkstone" <folkstone@odyssey.on.ca> Thanks again have a great day Ann Very glad to hear that. In Touch appears in the MEN on Saturday - I always look to see if there are any letters from people who've contacted me. Get to In Touch via the Manchester Online main page From: "leslie wilbraham" <bar@ihorizons.net> Regarding the Elk Mill. My father, Harry Wilbraham worked there before W.W.2. He lived on Middleton Road in Royton. He worked in the mule spinning room. I had a sister, Iris, now living in Kenner, Louisana, U.S.A., just outside New Orleans. Myself, Leslie, worked at Platt Bros, Oldham, from 1937 until 1955. when I transferred to a customer plant near Kingston, Ontario, Canada. I was an overseas out-fitter. Nice to talk, Les Thanks - gone but not forgotten! Maybe some people out there may know you or your kinfolk. From: "Stephen Mcguire" <John.Mcguire@tesco.net> 
I'm going to have to stop reading Manchester On-line or it looks like I'll be e-mailing you every week about something in it. Firstly, you are completely wrong to say that the medieval quarter is mostly Victorian. The cathedral was built in 1421, Cheetham's School (left) (the old Manchester manor house) is from at least 1422, with some parts probably earlier. The hanging bridge (partially concealed, but soon to be fully uncovered) is older still (from than the 1300s at least). The old Shambles pubs (above right) (1500s plus) will fit in well with their surroundings. If you go to the steps of the MEN arena and take a picture of the back of Chetham's school, there can be no doubt about it being medieval.
There is the legend of a giant called Tarquin being killed by Launcelot at the ruins of the Roman Fort (after the Romans left but before the English arrived in this area, when Manchester was still Welsh). Tarquin threw a great stone at Launcelot but was so strong that the stone landed all the way in what is now Stretford in South Manchester. There is still a Great Stone Road there today. I've always thought it would look good to have a statue of Tarquin and one of Launcelot on opposite sides of the Castlefield basin, one throwing a huge stone, the other brandishing his sword. As perhaps the oldest (along with Chester) and most important city in the North West (sorry Liverpool) you should bare in mind that Manchester has more history than just an industrial city. By the way Manchester was part of Mercia for many years, before Lancashire or Gtr Manchester existed. Why not put Manchester, Mercia against your photos (sic).
As stated in "Victorian Manchester & Salford": "Mynshull's old house was pulled down in 1890 and replaced by the fanciful Elizabethan sytle office building in red sandstone..." The Mitre Hotel was built in 1867, the Britannic Buildings (right) , 1906, The Corn Exchange also appeared during the 1900's. Various extensions to the Cathedral were done throughout the 19th century. So this area has a largely Victorian character.
The moving of the two pubs to the new site is a compromise - the old Market Place was badly hit in the war and finally obliterated by the 70's development (right) now being demolished. The reconstruction of the pubs next to the Cathedral and Corn Exchange (left) is the best thing possible under the circumstances. I'm not comfortable with the term "medieval quarter" simply because it's misleading - leave that to cities like York, Durham and Prague. I'm also not happy with the term "Roman Fort" - "Reconstructed Roman Fort" would be much better.
As for Manchester being in Mercia, the maps I've consulted show the River Mersey (left) as Mercia's northernmost boundary. According to Hutchinson's "Dictionary of Place Names" by Adrian Room, Mersey means "boundary river" from Old English gemaere"boundary" and ea "river", the boundary being the one separating the ancient Anglo-Saxon kingdoms of Mercia and Northumbria. Manchester is north of the Mersey and so in Northumbria. Anyhow please don't stop reading EWM, your responses are very welcome! I stand corrected on the Roman Fort foundations, I didn't realise there was that much there. Liked the story about Launcelot! Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 18:32:34 -0000 Mersey certainly does mean boundary. It is more likely that the name came from the much later boundary between Cheshire and Lancashire (as in Princes' street, Stockport, Lancashire (sic) north of the mersey after all), than the very early boundary between Mercia and Northumbria (we're going back to before the Vikings for this one). So yes, let's all be proud of our Mercian heritage!! John Which all goes to prove: Never believe anything you read in print - and that includes Eyewitness in Manchester. I may be interested in what's around me, but I am not an expert. There are local writers, historians and Blue Badge guides who know far more about Manchester than I do. In fact I'm just learning as I go along. So if anyone wants to take me to task, do like John and contact me!
Aidan, As you know, I have been working over the last week on creating a web site. One part of that site entitled "Manchester Memories" is devoted to the history of Longsight during the period 1930 to the late 1960s. Whilst the site is far from finished, I think there is enough there for people to begin to take a look and to give me some feedback. Viewers should keep in mind that it is a work in progress
and they should check back from time to time to see additions. This
is intended to be a web site about the community for the people who
lived there during that period. It is also a place for them to add
their own memories and pictures. All contributions are welcome nay
essential if this is to give an accurate and vivid picture of our
community. Please check out: http://home.accglobal.net/~david.boardman/longsight.html I've had a look, it's looking great - lots of interesting stuff. I know Longsight well, I often took the 92 & 53 to school and friends of mine grew up there. I'll flag it up on the Reader Messages page and here. Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1999 16:10:13 -0500 Cheers, I appreciate the support. I had a great letter
today from a policeman in Manchester who had read my letter. He got
me several pictures of the old Longsight police station and two copies
of the program for the official opening of the new station. The program
contains a really good history of the old building. I am constantly
gobsmacked by people's enthusiasm and generosity. Say what they like
about Manchester, the people, wherever they are around the globe are
great. David
HI Aidan Enjoyed this weeks EWM - very interesting and most enjoyable, as always. It brings back almost forgotten memories. Back in 91 a was back in the old city and went to the Museum of Transport in Cheetham Hill which is excellent. It doesen't look much from the outside but on the inside itis as we say over here Chokka full of exhibits, buses, and history. While I was there I purchased a set of postcard size photos of different buses which I have framed and now displayed in my study - not that I am a bus fanatic but old memories of going to school on the old trolley bus up Ashton New Road and going to Belle vue on the 53 bring back fond memories. Another favourite of mine is of course the Hollands Meat and Potato pie with the usual chips and gravy. I have been informed that having gravy with chips is typically Mancunian and not done in other parts of the U K Anyway I have been back to M/C a number of times over the last twenty years or so and the first place I head for is the Chippy in Tib street just down from the Army and Navy store. It was or is on a corner quite near an amusement arcade. Anyway I reckon that it is worth coming 12,000 miles for pie and chips. When I was there in '91 there were staff members serving that I remember as being there since before '74 I think. That would be some kind of record. I hope the place is still there, I suppose us expats from M/c could rave on about our favourite local dish, Eccles cakes, tripe and onions etc. I guess the list would be endless. Well keep up the good work regards Bill McC I'll have a look to see if that chippy on Tib Street is still there. As for chips & gravy, I was chatting to ITV weatherman Fred Talbot on this very subject the other night, and it seems, yes, if you ask for chips & gravy in Sheffield, they will give you a funny look! From: "Mr James Turner" <jturner@net2000.com.au> Dear aidan I'm an old Manchester man who lived in Openshaw. I came down under
in '61. It's been great getting onto your site. My address in the
50s was Dyer St Openshaw just off Ashton Old Rd. There was a theatre
there then called the Metropole theatre. Would you have any pictures of that? My father had a boot & shoes repair shop in Dyer St and the show girls would come in, put their leg up on the counter, and say to dad: "Can you do a quick repair for me, new heel or something?" It was changed into a picture house later. I was in Manchester in '98 but it was all gone. The Grey Mare pub, Brit&Star pubs... all gone. Regards Jim. Unfortunately I don't at the moment have access to any old photographs - for copyright reasons. There's a book called "Magic in the Dark" a history of Manchester cinemas - perhaps that has the Metropole in it, I'll have a look. Dyer St has been demolished - this (below right) is how the location looks today. I love the bit about the showgirls. Were they wearing fishnet stockings with a seam up the back I wonder? - Now there's a picture I'd like to see! There's a photo of London Windmill showgirls in "We'll Meet Again - a personal and social memory of WW2" by Vera Lynn (Sidgwick & Jackson) - can't show it here for copyright reasons!
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1999 16:04:23 -0800 Formerly I lived in Openshaw and Bradford, namely Alice
St., off Mill St (above), which in turn ran off Ashton Old
Road. I know the area was demolished after we left in 1965 and I have
searched through your photo library without finding too much about
that area. Do you have photos of the area before demolition? If not,
do you have some as it looked afterwards? I recently was reunited with my remaining Manchester family, but they don't have much in the way of pictures of my old haunts and turning to you may be my only hope. You see we have never been back since we left, so obviously I am curious. Thanks for your time. George Greatbanks At the moment, I don't have copyright to include old pictures - most are with the Central Library, and they don't currently allow their pictures to be put on the Internet. I regularly go to the Openshaw and Bradford area and I intend to take some shots (above -do you know this pub, The Bradford?) Thanks for your prompt reply to my e-mail of earlier
today. All the places mentioned by Jim Turner, I remember, in fact
the It's about 5:25 am your time, so you don't need to reply
right away, by 6:00am will be just fine. But joking aside, I really
appreciate your Yours truly Glad to hear it! Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 15:58:44 -0800 Hello again, It was a really nice surprise to see my name up in lights on the additions to LATEST READERS MESSAGES, and especially nice to see the photo's you attached. I know the Bradford pub well, although I rarely drank there, preferred the Brit I'm afraid. Just along from that pub on Mill Street was a combined police station and fire station, is it still there? One of the memories I have of it was from my teens, even my parents never learned about this one. The gang I hung around with took a car and parked it in the police yard at that station. One of the girls in our group used to live in the fire station family quarters above and she would look out her window into the courtyard each day to see if they had found the car yet. It was almost two weeks before they did, you see it was parked in a spot that was reserved for a fireman who was on holiday and it was only when he came home and wanted to know who was parked in his spot that they found it. Stupid prank really, but a lot of fun never-the-less. As for Jim Turner. I e-mailed him and got a reply, with it was some more info you might like to know. His family also had a shop next door to the Church Inn on the Ashton Old Road/Clayton Lane corner. In the old days the pavement dropped back about 10 or 15 feet from the front of the pub and there were about 4 or 5 stores there before coming to a series of terraced houses with front gardens. All of it, From the Church Inn to Mill Street was one continuous block. The reason for the drop back to the shops was the absence of gardens in front of the shops. The Bee Hive used to have a store on that row too, as well as one right across from it, Jim Turners family's shop was right next to the pub if my memory serves me right. Also on that block was a news agents, I think the people who owned it were called Whiteside, and I used to buy my papers and magazines (Charles Buchan's Football Monthly) there. I had an account under the name of Banks, we dropped the Great, it was much easier on the store people, we still do that to this day when registering for seating in a restaurant for example. But back to the tale. The woman who ran the news agents was a big woman and her husband was small and mousy. She was as noisy and belligerent as he was meek and mild, a real cartoon pair if you ever saw one. I don't mean any disrespect, but it was funny. Jim also asked if I remembered the London Pie Shop on the Old Road and I surely do, we used to buy pies and other goods there all the time. If I'm not mistaken it was just after Grey Mare Lane, just by the bus stop next to the bank on the Grey Mare Lane corner. I have all kinds of stories and memories of places around Openshaw that I could relate, if you are interested that is. Well I will close this latest edition of Manchester Tales from afar and talk to you soon. I thought you would like to know about my getting in touch with Jim. If there are any other ex Openshaw/Bradford folks out there who would like to drop me a line, please feel free to do so. Who knows I might even uncover some of my old buddies. I haven't designed my web page yet, but the guy from Longsight has given me a great idea of what it will look like. George I look forward to seeing it and I'm sure lots of other people do too. No, that police station and fire station isn't there any more. In fact, the local police station is on the other side of what's now Alan Turing Way, on Grey Mare Lane.
From: "The Triggersons" <triggerson@globalserve.net> Mum is going to be 90 on April 24th. She was born the same day that United won their very first Cup Final. I have compiled a "This is your Life" type of 3-ring binder to give to her on the big day. It is a combination of facts, escapades, family photos as well as your pictures from EWM on Debdale, Reddish Lane, The Audenshaw motorway construction, Fairfield Golf Course, Clayton Bridge, Hartshead Pike, some downtown buildings that she would remember and Piccadilly Gardens, showing Rylands (Debenhams) where she used to work. This collection is just for Mum's enjoyment, so I don't think I would be breaking any copyright laws. If I am, please let me know straight away and I'll remove the offending pages. (After all, it is 3-ring) I hope you get even half as much pleasure as you give to all ex-pats. If we could love and miss the old grimey buildings, it stands to reason that we must enjoy the city with a clean face lift. Cheers, Brenda Triggerson, Hamilton, On. Canada Thank you very much indeed for the message. I'm very happy for the photos to be used in your mum's "This is your life" folder, I'm very chuffed! Wish her a very happy birthday from me. I'm sure she has many interesting accounts of Manchester in past times which I'd love to hear!
Hi Aidan,Once again well done on your web apge. I am interested in your book and was wondering what the cost would be for us expats over the big ocean here in Canada. Keep up the good work and don't forget the FINEST, BEST, MOST STUPENDOUS SOCCER TEAM IN THE WHOLE WORLD ARE OF COURSE MAN UTD Aidan I just remember the Police Station used in the film "Hell Is A City" was actually the front of a bank which was or still is on the street that runs from Market St /Piccadilly towards Albert Square. By the way is there still a Branch of the Bank of England in Manchester. I can't remember the street it was on but I can almost walk there from Deansgate. Peter Sorry for not getting back to you earlier - From viewings of the film, I'd put the location on Corporation St - opposite the old M&S building. This area was demolished in the sixties to make way for the Arndale centre. I don't think the location is Cross Street, which continues on from Corporation St at Market Street and leads to Albert Square. Turn left from Cross St onto King St and you'll find the original Bank of England, subsequently the Trustee Savings Bank, which was redeveloped in the 90's with the addition of a tower block at the rear. Is this the BofE you meant?
Wendy Rushing I'm obviously going to have to take more photos of Gorton - it appears to be one of Manchester's most requested suburbs - please keep visiting and let's hope we get some more good weather soon. After 43 years, I think you may find a few changes. I know Florida quite well, I've been to Orlando, Cape Canaveral, St Petersburg, Miami Beach and right down to Key West.
Aidan: Have a good one! Here's a rainy picture of Market St for you, taken before the construction of the new Metrolink stop! Thanks for contacting!
Actually I'd love to see a map of Sale and Brooklands area if it's at all possible and not too much trouble. Thanks again Lesley Reid The closest I've got is the one on my "Brooklands" composite (right). Decent online maps are sorely needed, but there are serious copyright problems preventing us from doing it.
From: "jb jbb" <pipa2@hotmail.com> We love you for all your doing Nice to hear from you and thanks for your kind thoughts.
It's great people are finding each other through the website. I've heard
from a few old friends myself! It's not difficult for them to find me.
Here's a picture of St Mary's Churchyard, Prestwich. From: "Lynda Youel" <youel@tower.net.au>
I'm not sure off hand about those places. Does anyone know? The book on Gorton by Jill Cronin (telephone 0161 336 3989. Postal address: 4 Romford Ave, Denton M34 3EJ) and Frank Rhodes (telephone: 0161 320 6857. Postal address: 3 Maple Ave Denton M34 3QU) may have this information. Thanks for reminding me about Vimto & Tizer, but I wonder where they're made now?
Hi, I thought that I would drop you a line to say how good I think your site is I am living in the Isle of Man, (formerly having lived in Mottram St Andrew (between Wilmslow and Macclesfield). I miss my Weekend trips to Manchester very much and it will be great to visit your site and find out what is going on Having worked in the Internet business for a few years now and having seen literally thousands of sites, it is really refreshing to see one so well put together. ali@transerve.com I'm very flattered, thank you. There are many improvements which could be made. As for Mottram St Andrew, I often drive through it, but I don't get many requests for that area - most of the "new world" expats don't seem to come from districts to the south of Manchester. Anyhow, I have one wintry picture of Mottram St Andrew I took two years ago.
|
The
point I was making is that very few of Manchester's medieval buildings
have survived. A tourist hearing the phrase "medieval quarter"
may think we have a genuine "old town" as in Prague (left).
And I understand the term "medieval quarter" to mean a
district where most or all of the buildings have survived intact
from the Middle Ages. In Manchester, this simply isn't the case
-Where in many central European cities, the "Altstadt"
"Stare Mesto" or "Old Town" was preserved, in
Manchester it was lost. 
|
