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READER MESSAGES EARLY JULY 1999 Envelope-to: aidan@anamaria.u-net.com Hi Aidan, Man United played the Socceroos at the Melbourne Cricket Ground on Thursday night, and as a famous author once said 'It was the best of times, it was the worst of times'.
There was huge excitement leading up to the match, and the M.U. players were greeted by quite a large crowd at the airport, despite arriving at 6am on Tuesday. Once the Socceroos had overcome their awe of playing the world's most famous soccer team (who showed no signs of jetlag), it was quite a good match, and the 65,000 strong crowd got their money's worth. Support was about evenly divided, and even the Socceroos supporters had divided loyalties as of course M.U. now has an Aussie keeping goal. The down side was that neither team was at full strength, due partly to many of Australia's best now playing for overseas clubs who wouldn't release them, and of course Beckham's much publicised honeymoon. Even free luxury accomodation on the Queensland coast apparently didn't tempt him. The other downer was the surface of the MCG which is currently in the middle of the Aussie Rules season, which, if you've ever seen a game, does not really depend on a smooth playing surface to the extent that soccer does. Apparently a new surface will be laid prior to the Olympic soccer preliminaries next year. The lads are now off to Sydney to play in the new Olympic stadium there, where the surface *should* be much better. BTW, if you happened to watch it (was it was broadcast in the UK?) I should apologise for the renditions of the National Anthems. For some reason, we always seem to be given what I call 'cabaret versions' here. I wish for once they would just sing them in a straight-forward style without the vocal embellishments. We'll be looking forward to seeing the Socceroos at full strength next year.Probably the best match I've seen at the MCG was the 'we wuz robbed' encounter with Iran in the last World Cup. I don't understand the 'away goals count double' rule if the teams play one match in each other's country. Surely the home ground advantage is then cancelled out. I printed out the Newsletter on Friday as usual. Is this the best day to do it? You have a lot of updates now, but I only print once a week - the missus thinks I spend too much time of the Internet as it is! Good to hear that you're having a heat wave, but you didn't mention what the temperature was. We're having a remarkable mild winter so far, most days are in the mid teens. Regards Tony and Linda Andrews We saw a feature on United's Australian visit on BBC1's Northwest Tonight this evening. Michael Peschardt (who interviewed EWM reader Vinnie McGuire for NWT two years ago) reported on "Manchester in Australia" Here's a larger version of a picture I took at the homecoming parade in May X-Sender: tandrews@netcore.com.au Dear Aidan, I haven't written for some time, but I'm still printing out 'Eyewitness' on a weekly basis for my wife. I thought you might be interested to hear that one of our two daily newspapers in Melbourne, had a full page report on Manchester in the travel pages. Under the main heading "Manchester, united", it reads 'Another week, another cafe bar - that's the scene in the once-drab cotton capital of the world'
It points out that Manchester no longer fits the bleak stereotype of northern England cities in the movies. There's a picture of a barge cruising the Rochdale canal, beside an outdoor cafe and a little footbridge, and another of 'shopping in lively King Street'. The tone of the article was very positive indeed, pointing out the modern developments as well as the history of the city. I think the writer was having a little fun when she described the Trafford Centre as 'Hollywood meets the Vatican', but I'm sure I've told you that we have very similar shopping centres here. One third of the page was taken up with a visit to the Manchester United ground at Old Trafford, and mentions the near impossibility of visitors seeing the team play because the games are always sold out. Of course we have the opportunity to see them play here in Melbourne on our very own MCG next week. I'm sure there will be a good crowd, but we have the advantage of a 90,000 seat arena (and they're building another 50,000 seat stadium in the nearby Docklands development - Aussies love their sport!) There is mention of the Manchester Commonwealth Games coming up in 2002 (Melbourne follows in 2006) which will increase tourism even more. Quite frankly after all the hype and skullduggery surrounding the Olympics, I think both cities are better off with those Games rather than the Olympics. We're enjoying a fairly mild winter so far with temps averaging around the mid-teens Celsius. The only people not happy with that are the skiers who are having to largely make do with the man-made stuff. Regards Linda and Tony Andrews. Nice to hear that the article is positive. Thanks for your messages To: "Aidan O'Rourke"
<aidan@anamaria.u-net.com> I took your walking tour up and down Whitworth Street, yesterday - Sunday, and loved every minute of it. Would you hazard a guess that your photo's, as per usual, stirred my memory banks, sure they did. First off, was UMIST in its present location in the late 40's? Of course, as a 12 to 16 year old, I probably didn't notice it, which is strange, because did you realize that directly opposite it, in what is now Shena Simon College, was Manchester Central Grammar School?
The turret you so much admire was part of my school for 4 years, but I must admit, I didn't notice that either. The photo you showed from the roof of UMIST, looking up Chortlton St., gives a better picture of my old school. You can clearly see the 'L' shape configuration, and the old school yard is still there, but cars park in it now. In my younger days, the school housed upwards of 1500+ boys and girls. The two schools were housed in the same L, but the boys got the portion where the tower is, and part of the long leg of the 'L,' with locked doors on each floor separating the Girls school from ours. The playground was also split with a wall and we took great delight in kicking a ball over it at play-time and fighting to see who was going to fetch it. Granelli's used to have an ice cream cart parked on Chorlton St., outside the yard all lunchtime, with 99's for a penny. We also had a Tuck shop on the basement floor, at the bottom of the stairs in the centre of the building off the yard. It was right outside our huge cafeteria that used to provide hot meals every day for 2/6d a week. I used to pocket the 2/6d, make my own lunches as my folks were at work when I left for school. With it I would buy toffee coupons, they were still rationed, at the beginning of the month and sell them at a profit when kids were desperate for a sugar fix. I think they call that a Black Market, I just called it good pocket money. When I first went there, the headmaster was an very tall old guy, with half spectacles and bushy grey hair, receding at the front. All the teachers wore mortarboards and black robes, and many, especially Mt. Bowcott, the Vice-Principal carried the old canes that they swished as they walked. It cleared the way very quickly as all the boys backed to the walls to prevent him giving them a tap on the rear. Anyway, this old Headmaster would have looked right at home in a Dickens tale, as he peered over his half specs, down at us. You see, every kid that was late had to report to him, as did every boy that was missing from school. He took your notes, or excuses and doled out punishment. When he retired, we had a Channel Islander called M. De La Parrel (I'm not sure I'm spelling that correctly). The school's main claim to fame was having Robert Donat as a pupil and his picture hung in the hall. In my time there, Jeff Ingber played table tennis for England in many International tournaments. Our Gym was in the basement, below the foot of the 'L' and our football coach was Mr. Sweeting and English Amateur International and our rugby coach was Haydyn Walters who played for Wales. I opted for football and played for the school team. It wasn't in a league, but played an exhibition schedule against other public and grammar schools throughout southern Lancashire and Cheshire. We didn't have playing fields of our own. But each week, each form had one full afternoon of sports. We were marched down Whitworth St., and boarded trams that would whisk us out to Parrs Wood where we practiced and where our 'Home' games were played. We loved that trip. Not long after I graduated in 1951, the school moved to its present location behind Belle Vue. It lost a lot of its nostalgia in doing so, because it was grossly overcrowded. The girls for example, used to be marched through one of the doors joining the two schools to get to the only typing pool they could use, we loved that I can tell you. My school days were a lot of fun, even though the discipline was real 'Old School," pardon the pun. Whacks of the cane were the worst, the strap was second worst, but the most demeaning was being spread-eagled over a desk and walloped with a plimsoll if you misbehaved in class. It kept us in line though, and if the truth be known, it didn't do us any harm, at least in my opinion. These days, teachers have too few methods of discipline, their job is one I wouldn't like, even though I love teaching, having done a fair amount in the adult community and with children in sports, football naturally, for the past 31 years. I could tell you stories of many other buildings on Whitworth St., that I have had personal experience with, especially the old Refuge building. Can you remember the movie that starred George Baker and had a scene on the rooftops of the Refuge building? I can't recall its name, maybe you, or some reader can bring it to mind. Talk to you again soon. George The name of that film is "Hell is a City" starring Stanley Baker. It was made in 1959. I mention it on my Recommended page. I have it on tape, it's one of my all time favourites. Yes, any reminiscences you have of the old Refuge Building would I'm sure be very interesting. From: "The Triggersons"
<triggerson@globalserve.net> Have you ever seen that grand marble entrance hall Aidan? Not in the new bit opened in 1957, but in the bit that faces Sackville Park? In 1950, that hall was lined with magnificent statues. (I hope they haven't been relegated to the basement!) I was pleased to learn where Shena Simon College was - like George, I had only ever known it at Whitworth St. (or on formal occasions, Manchester Central Grammar School).
Hi Aidan, I believe that the entrance to the hall that I was describing was right on Whitworth St. I seem to remember there were about 7 or 10 steps up to the front door. Through that door there were doors or corridors leading off left and right and straight ahead were double doors that opened into this long marble hall (running parallel to Sackville St). It was a long time ago, (could have been 1948 or 49). The statues were white marble (or plaster of paris, what would I know?) and channeled the visitors to more steps straight ahead. I was probably 11 years old and we had been invited to a dance. It was splendiferous! No comparison to Belle Vue! I was so impressed that my Dad should work at such a posh place. At the time the iron girders for the new extension were built in a framework that withstood all of the bombs. It had been started before the war, and it must have been in the 50s when they finally returned to the blueprints. In 1952, I wrote an entrance exam at Whitworth St. (for the Town Hall) and ate my lunch in Sackville Park. I can remember looking at those girders then. I never realised that the new bit would put the old bit in the shadows! Is this familiar? - This is definitely round the side of the building, on Sackville St, not Whitworth St! Above the door is a wonderful stained glass window, which I've used in this experimental stereoscopic picture. This isn't the real floor! I've drawn it in Adobe Photoshop! From: "Lawrence J.
Murphy" <slm8@worldnet.att.net> Yet again you have given me (and many others, I am sure) a wonderful reminder of Manchester, as I rack my brain to place all the old remembered sights against the newer more up to date sights - I love the time I spend each week on your Web site. Thank you again.
Sorry to hear the Fire Station is no longer there - best parties in Manchester were given by those firemen in the late 60's. I used to go to a folk club in the 60's which was held in the Manchester Sports Guild, somewhere in the back street of the City Centre (sorry to be so vague). Would anyone know if it is still there? Mr. Smith's also was a club we used to go to around Canal Street, off Whitworth Street. Any sign of that now? What is that area now? I attended a Business College called the Burleigh Business School. Would anyone know if this is still there. I am going back in time! Sue Murphy Oldwick, USA Shena Simon College is the former Central Grammar School (as my readers have informed me!). Mr Smith's will be long gone, but Canal St today is Manchester's busiest and most fashionable night spot, literally crammed with revellers every Friday and Saturday night. Here is Canal St on a recent wet Saturday night, taken with my brand new digital camera Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 02:48:53
-0700 Hi Aidan, Loved the photo shoot of Oldham St, but what a drastic change to the street I know all too well. It looks worse than the old slum areas of Manchester I remember, in fact it appears to need a complete makeover. Of course, in my time in Manchester it was one-way from Piccadilly out, it appears to be the opposite now.
The funny thing is that I can't recall the facade that looked like a movie theatre, but maybe that's just a result of age, who knows. My connection with Oldham St., began very early in life. There used to be, and may still be, a pub in the lane right behind Woolworths. My parents used to go in there periodically and I'd wait outside for them, I'm talking very young then. I remember having a temper tantrum outside that pub, I used to hold my breath and go all stiff, it frightened the daylights out of my mother when I did that. But obviously I survived it. When I first started work, I used to have New Day Furniture Store as an account, they were on the right hand side, just past the road coming out of Stevenson Square. I remember them being robbed one time where thieves concealed themselves in a wardrobe until after closing, then calmly let their accomplices in the backdoor where they had parked a big van. Then dressed in smocks they emptied the front window of the store while passers by watched as they assumed the window display was being changed.It sure was. I also worked a Saturday shift at Bunneys, an Army and Navy Store just across the street from New Day. Later, when I worked for ICT, I again was involved with New Day and when I left ICT to become the National Service Manager of a company called IAP, I was yet again involved with New Day nationally installing data readers to help control their Hire Purchase payments.The system was quite ingenious, but the company was way under funded and couldn't keep up with the demands for their revolutionary equipment which was also extensively used by Co-ops to control dividend payments. In all this time spent in and out of New Day, I had made business friends with a man who rose up through the New Day ranks to General Manager. One day he asked me to go to a board meeting, I protested that I had no business there, but he insisted saying IAP was on the agenda. I went and listened to plans to cancel the contract with IAP for breach of contract, not fulfilling the equipment needs, and left that meeting knowing I had to move on. I did, within a month. As an adult, I used to go to United's games, as you've probably guessed from previous e-mails. On cold winter days, and many other days for that matter, my father and I would go to Yate's Wine lodge, either the upper or lower one, and get our 'Double White All In,' a white wine, in a heated glass, with hot water, lemon and sugar, guaranteed to keep you warm all game long. Are they still around? I also remember driving out of Stevenson Square and stopping at the lights at Oldham Street. I was talking to a friend of mine in the passenger street, looking at him and checking the light periodically. I glanced at it, saw it was green and went. My friend put both hands on the dashboard and stiffened, then after we got safely across Oldham Street, he said how lucky we were. I apparently saw the green light okay, but it was the light for the Oldham Street traffic, mine was still red. He told me a scooter rider was fast approaching the intersection, along with other traffic when I shot out, and he graphically described the look of fear on that riders face as he reefed on the brakes, and how he couldn't believe we had made it across without causing an accident. If that scooter rider is reading this, I must apologize for my stupidity. On that note I had better close, talk to you again soon. George Yates Wine Lodge is still going strong, now located on Portland St on the corner of Chorlton St Envelope-to: aidan@anamaria.u-net.com Hi Aidan, Thanks for your as usual prompt reply to my query about where you had placed my last message. I am happy to report that I found it. 'City Hall,' your right, I've been in North America too long, I would never have thought of calling the old building anything else but the Town Hall if I'd still been in Manchester.
You know, it's funny, I haven't been in Manchester since I left in 1965, primarily because, as you have pointed out before, all the area I knew most intimately, namely Openshaw, has to all intents and purposes been obliterated. All the friends I knew when growing up, and even family members of both mine and June's family have dispersed to goodness knows where. But I'll tell you one thing, I still miss the old soot-blackened slum area that I used to call home and, more importantly, the friends and family I had there. If you remember, I hooked up with your site as a direct result of my attempt to locate my family who I hadn't heard from or talked to since the early 70's. This I was the first thing I started to do when I went online in December last year. I did it through the Manchester Evening News, who you know quite well. With their help I found my sister within 4 days, and was happy and surprised to find my mother still living and with her at age 85. Since the long distance reunion, we have conversed a lot either by telephone or on the net and it has given my life more purpose. Without the help of the News, I wouldn't have known about my sister's new life, or my mother's health and for that I am truly grateful. As a matter of fact, my mother had hip replacement surgery just last Monday, June 28th 1999, and through this medium I would like to wish her a speedy recovery, but knowing her fighting spirit, I'm sure she will be up and around in no time. The phone, the net and letters are the only way I will be able to keep in touch because heaven knows when I will be able to see her in the flesh given my own health and other concerns. But one day. But enough of me and mine. You never cease to amaze me with your pictorial support of the e-mails you receive, for example; I mentioned the episode of the guy running into the plate glass door of Thomas Cook Travel, kiddy-corner from the Central Library, and there in support was a picture of the office.
In it, some people, one of which was a woman with a pram I think, are walking or stopped in front of a corner window of Cook's, that is what used to be the entrance I was talking about I believe, correct me if I am wrong. The buses you pictured were the ones I most remember, I rode them a lot, and it was one like them that we were riding when the 'spill' took place in St. Peter's Square. Remember the pictures of buses you took in the Transportation museum, picture #864 I think it was. Bus #4 in the photo was I believe an SMT (or some such transit name) that operated as an express up Ashton Old Road to Stalybridge, Dukinfield and other nearby places.
The front end of them was the same, but the ones I remember still had the platform at the rear instead of centre doors. I also remember vividly the buses in #3, 'Red Dragons' we used to call them. I remember seeing a picture somewhere of the frames of these buses being subjected to a tilt test, and to the best of my knowledge they could easily tilt 40 degrees off vertical. When I traveled England in my role as an Olivetti trouble-shooter, I almost always used back roads and country lanes and would see the Red Dragons careening down the country lanes, tilting wildly and going like a bat out of hell. More than once I have come face-to-face with one and had to reverse into a passing area to let them by, after all they were bigger than me. That leads my to a gentle reminder, Blue Pig, Blue Pig, Blue Pig. The SMT used to go right past there and I took it when I lived in Dukinfield just after getting married and when I lived in Audenshaw. I still think there is enough left on that buses run to warrant a photo shoot. Fairfield Moravian settlement, the Trough (a former toll gate), the gate houses of Rycroft Hall and Ryecroft Hall itself. I would love to see such a shoot. Incidentally, I recently received an old map of the area from Jim Turner in Australia. He and I correspond quite regularly and he was asking me if I knew the Snipe Pit, I didn't, but the map he sent me showed its location where Ashton New Road met Manchester Road, it showed Ryecroft Hall, as well as Edward St., Audenshaw where I lived my early married life. I'm sure he'd send you one too, especially since you were wishing you could get one in your reply to my e-mail on Audenshaw. Well that's enough for this episode. Talk to you again soon. George Thanks for another entertaining message! I will be reporting from Audenshaw soon, and will try remember to include the Blue Pig! Date: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 20:39:32
-0400 Dear Aidan We always enjoy the page but this weeks Denton issue brought a special treat. My Mother and Father were married in the black and white church and I was born in Denton in Mt Pleasent Avenue just opposite.
On the other side of the road. My godmother was the daughter of the vicar of the church you show at Haughton Green (Mary Cretney) and our first house when we were married back in 61 was Gibraltar Lane in Haughton Green. I enjoyed your comments about the old residents and the new comers. I suppose we were a part of that group when the development was first mentioned. My wife's cousins live in Haughton Green, one in the house two doors away from our fist house in Gibraltar lane but bought long after we emigrated to Australia, the other in what was then the new estate on the other side of the brick wall so both sides must have reached an accommodation as two nicer families you could not wish to meet. Come to think of it that just about sums up most of the people I knew in Denton. In short a friendly down to earth, salt of the earth community. Thanks for the memories Ken Steele I'm now including easy-to-remember external links to Eyewitness in Manchester Newsletter reports. The first one is http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/ewm/links/denton |
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